Matty Healy

Matty Healy and Curtis Pawley have a deep chat about their heroes and why writing a good song isn't a math equation.

PAWLEY: When I was studying music theory young, it made it so when I would hear too simple of a pop song—I mean, I don’t think like this at all now—I was like, “This is too simple, I need to spice it up.” But then when I sat and tried to be like, “Well, how could I modulate the key here? I’m just like, “All right, we’ve got to move to a new section here.” And the next thing I know, I made a nice little progression. It takes a lot of confidence to let the audience give you the benefit of the doubt and not over explain. And at the risk of sounding corny, that’s what I worry about in my work as I get old, as I become a more mature person. And to me, the reason I got into music when I was a kid wasn’t because I heard avant garde music, but it was because I heard radio. Then it could be that you use the breakup as a catalyst, as a subject in the song, but the song is not about the breakup. The ninth time he’s like, “I’m not in love,” you’re like, “This guy’s so fucking in love.” That’s a really clever device in that song. But all that’s to say that, to me, pop songcraft and strong writing and the little decisions that go into songwriting, the way that parts of the song move into other parts, the way you can combine a lyric with a certain riff to create a certain emotion. And then the more I worked on it, the more I started to feel like I liked this—I liked it sounding like what it was, which was one guy alone in a room with his limited tools, trying to make something that sounded as big as it could. This is just what was in my heart, and that’s all that matters.” I understand what they’re saying, that they’re not doing it for commercial viability, but it still feels like the wrong attitude to have about music. But I have a strange view on this stuff, because I actually think the best kind of dark art is optimistic, in a sense. That felt really good like, “Right, if you think something, you’re not such a unique snowflake, you’re not the only person in the world that thinks this way.” And that’s a great thing.